Curse

MithranArkanere · Mar 25, 2008, 04:14 PM // 16:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

1. The economy sucks because I can't sell things and become uber-rich
2. The economy is great because I can buy almost anything without spending a fortune.

For me it's:
3. The economy sucks because I have to spend ages spamming text and wasting time in outposts or resort to external sites like forums to sell single items.

Most of the time, the time it takes to sell an item is not worth the gld you will get by selling it. And so, people only sell items when they have a big bunch of them or when they have one really expensive item. And most of the time, not even that.

That is: The market is SLOW.
Being slow is what can be worst for economy.

- Faster routes.
- More clients.
- More sellers.
- More transactions.

That's what is best for economy always since ancient times.
Those with the faster route can get to the stuff faster and bring it faster to the clients.
Those that attrack more people can sell stuff cheaper and gain more cash by selling more for less money.
The more sellers there are, the more competition is between sellers, and the better the prices get to the clients.
The more transactions are made, the more movement money has, and the more healthier the economy is.

Currently, GW economy is only for those with time to waste and will to spend selling. That is, less than 20% of the players.

What the economy needs is to welcome everyone. Faster sellings, more transactions, no time wasting.
Yeah. What we need is something like the Xunlai Marketplace. Nothing else will do.

Until that s done, there will be no 'economy' other than the made with traders.
Other than that, there will be only a small 'trading' circle with those that bother with the current slowpoke system.

erikjo · Mar 25, 2008, 04:52 PM // 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by aapo

- Wrong. As time passes, more and more characters get their birthdays, thus increasing the supply of high-end minipets and decreasing their value.

- This one's correct.

- Over time these will become common too, if they still drop.

- "their value either increases or it decreases". Tautology much?

Birthday minis are crap, they are not high end. High end are oni, naga, zhed, shiroken, panda etc.

the_jos · Mar 25, 2008, 05:27 PM // 17:27

In my opinion, the economy as a whole looks healthy.
Starting players don't have to save every penny to get decent gear and a decent build if they don't buy every weapon and skill available.
Players who put some effort into it should be able to make roughly 10k/hour with farming. Could be even more.

On the other hand, trading facilities are bad.
I don't want to spend ages to sell something when I could make more gold while playing or farming.
Some gold items I merch could make someone happy and I don't mind selling them at merch prices, since that is what I get for them now.

On the other hand, I do understand that A-net would perhaps not support that very much.
Because introduction of trading facilities on those 'low end' items would kill the gold sink called crafter weapons. If anyone still uses those.

From my point of view, trading would give better insight to the market for all and I think both buyers and sellers could benefit from it.

Fril Estelin · Mar 25, 2008, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

That is: The market is SLOW.
Being slow is what can be worst for economy.

What is slow for you is average speed for a lot and fast for the majority, who bought GW for having fun doing missions and killing stuff. As said many time above, each person has its own vision of what the state of the economy is, which often amounts to "how happy I am with buying what I need/want and selling the rest". Overall, I guess Anet is doing a good not pissing too many people.

I noticed in a year-old dev article on Loot Scaling (see other thread) that they were aiming at introducing regularly new (uber-)rare stuff so that the top bunch of GW entrepreneurs can always find something to do (no judgment here, some people love to be a significant node in the GW economic map and that's perfectly fine). It really is an art to balance the requirements from so many people.

Gli · Mar 25, 2008, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

For me it's:
3. The economy sucks because I have to spend ages spamming text and wasting time in outposts or resort to external sites like forums to sell single items.

Most of the time, the time it takes to sell an item is not worth the gld you will get by selling it. And so, people only sell items when they have a big bunch of them or when they have one really expensive item. And most of the time, not even that.

That is: The market is SLOW.
Being slow is what can be worst for economy.

It only takes as much time as you want it to. I can sell anything in under a minute. Of course, I need to sell below the 'market consensus' price, but I don't give a rat's rectum. The opportunity cost of time spent trying to get a good price is just too big for me.

MithranArkanere · Mar 25, 2008, 06:51 PM // 18:51

Even when I sell req9 gold skins for 1k It takes ages to sell anything, regardless of the skin.

In the time I'd sell any of most items I'd like to sell, I get more gold just by playing normally.

Gli · Mar 25, 2008, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Even when I sell req9 gold skins for 1k It takes ages to sell anything, regardless of the skin.

In the time I'd sell any of most items I'd like to sell, I get more gold just by playing normally.

I sell those within a minute too, at nearest merchant. When I posted what I posted, I assumed we were talking about items that belong on the player market.

Only a very few skins apply.

Zamorakk · Mar 25, 2008, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Agree, we realy need an auction house, Xunlai Marketplace * dreams *

Gli · Mar 25, 2008, 07:01 PM // 19:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zamorakk

Agree, we realy need an auction house, Xunlai Marketplace * dreams *

Frankly, I don't agree. Even selling under the norm, I'll make more without a decent trading system than with it. When offering items up for sale becomes too convenient, every Tom, Dick and Harry is going to put up stuff for sale, and prices will plummet even further.

Trading is fine the way it is at the moment. It's an activity that demands a time investment, and that's how it should be. When the time investment part disappears, we'll have deflation like we've never seen before.

MithranArkanere · Mar 25, 2008, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

I sell those within a minute too, at nearest merchant. When I posted what I posted, I assumed we were talking about items that belong on the player market.

Only a very few skins apply.

Why that difference?
Not everyone sells at the same time.
Not everyone sells at the same outposts.
Not everyone sells in the same 'world' (Europe, International, America, Asia)

And if everyone went to the same International outpost, not everyone would sells in the same language. So probably what you are looking for is there, but you cannot read it!
And even if everyone used English, the Party panel list would move so fast that seeking in it would be a hell!

A system to seek items regardless of language and location is needed. Otherwise all that are out of the 'hot' language and locations are out of the market.
No one should be punished for not being able to speak English when the game is fully translated in their languages.

Jecht Scye · Mar 25, 2008, 07:14 PM // 19:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

I suppose that many may consider this a redudant post

On the contrary. This is the post of the year.

creelie · Mar 25, 2008, 07:22 PM // 19:22

I just want to add that while some kind of auction house or store system would be AWESOME, its absence doesn't mean the economy sucks. It means the trading system sucks. Two different things.

MithranArkanere · Mar 25, 2008, 07:32 PM // 19:32

The trading system is what first shapes the economy.

If the only a few trade, then only a few are inside the economy.
Luckily we have traders, but when it comes to anything without a trader, then we get the trouble.

Now, if you want a rune that no one sells, you can get it quickly for 100g, without having to spend ages farming for monster armor.

Now, if you want a weapon upgrade no one sells, you HAVE to spend ages farming for it. And if you have a PvP-only account and want to upgrade a Zaishen or Hero chest reward, you are done, you cannot get most upgrades. Why? Because those that get such things will never bother in selling them, they will sell only those that the majority of people would buy.

Bryant Again · Mar 25, 2008, 07:35 PM // 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by creelie

I just want to add that while some kind of auction house or store system would be AWESOME, its absence doesn't mean the economy sucks. It means the trading system sucks. Two different things.

True^billionth power. Trading in GW is horrible. It's why I pretty much merchant 99% of what I pick up. Thankfully is not required since the items that are necessary are easy to get a hold of. Other than that it's terribad.

MSecorsky · Mar 25, 2008, 07:59 PM // 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by romeus petrus

I am going to have to disagree with that, although you do bring up a valid point. It is not healthy that most players in a game like GW can afford perfect weapons with ultra rare skins. Short of a few minis everything else in the game is very affordable if you have been playing the game long enough.

Not healthy for who, though? Some guy buys GW off the shelves, plays a month, sees a Chaos Axe, loves it, buys a r9 or r10 for 10K... how is this not healthy for the buyer or seller? Because the seller can't get the 100K + nn Ectos from the old days? The seller gets a lot more than the merch will pay and the buyer is now a much happier player and continues progressing through the game with his new chaos axe. Certainly seems win-win to me.

Quote:

I have no problem with everyone getting every item/armor they need; and no problem at all with vanity items having no advantage over much cheaper ones. However; IMHO, there should still be some items/armor left for those of us who have been playing the game since its release, and who like show something other than grind-based titles.

Reading this, I don't believe that you actually have a problem with the economy itself... you seem to have a "leet-loot" issue. Since there are still "elite" items out there that are extremely rare, I'm guessing you don't have any of those in particular and possibly you have items that were once extremely rare but have become more common, is this a correct guess?

You want to find (or buy) an ultra-rare item and have the warm-and-fuzzy that it will always be ultra-rare. This is not a problem with the economy. The economy is fine.

Maverick2201 · Mar 25, 2008, 08:17 PM // 20:17

One other side note - I completely agree (as I think 99% of the GW population does) that we need a marketplace/trading center.

I don't think a lot of people realize that something like that is bound to bring down prices once everyone starts using it. Assuming you can set your own price on an item, there will always be tons of people who get drops and don't realize just how much they're worth and put it up for sale for way less than they should. Do you know how many people out there get something like a perfect sundering sword hilt and don't know its worth 7-8k. Assuming also that there is no limit to how many individual items you can list, people will list just about everything and prices for just about everything will plummet since the "get it while you can because so and so is selling one right now" mentality will disappear.

MithranArkanere · Mar 25, 2008, 08:22 PM // 20:22

Well, of course, some will sell underpriced, but most people will see other people's prices before setting theirs.

Then they will increase or decrease theirs based on how many people ar selling already and how much they can wait for the item being sold.

It would be good for the system to set certain minimums to some items, like the merchant value or 1k for things like tomes.

Maverick2201 · Mar 25, 2008, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Well, of course, some will sell underpriced, but most people will see other people's prices before setting theirs.

Then they will increase or decrease theirs based on how many people ar selling already and how much they can wait for the item being sold.

It would be good for the system to set certain minimums to some items, like the merchant value or 1k for things like tomes.

Well, also, its not just that... standard competition will bring prices down. Think about it... if you go into a city and you're the only one selling a sundering sword hilt and someone needs it, you're going to get pretty much whatever you ask within reason. If a marketplace or auction house becomes a reality, theoretically there should be more than one of just about any item in there and people are going to start undercutting each other's prices to get THEIRS sold. Not to mention if the gold farming bots figure out how to use it, they'll undercut everyone and prices will fall even more since they don't care how much they get from an item as long as its them who sells it.

lacasner · Mar 25, 2008, 08:41 PM // 20:41

An auction house/market place is a good idea, but simply not worth the "effort" that Anet needs to put into it, effort that they can use to improve the game in a more significant way (pvp skill balances and updates cough cough

). Perhaps it would be before, when the buyer to seller ratio was much better, but now with like 5-10% of people in a district buying stuff it doesn't make sense.

I won't use a statistic for this either, but generally the only things u can sell to players now are over 100k, inscriptions, or mods. All the medium items are shit-hard to sell, and just worth merchanting (yet another indicator of a bad economy)

MithranArkanere · Mar 25, 2008, 08:45 PM // 20:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maverick2201

Well, also, its not just that... standard competition will bring prices down. Think about it... if you go into a city and you're the only one selling a sundering sword hilt and someone needs it, you're going to get pretty much whatever you ask within reason. If a marketplace or auction house becomes a reality, theoretically there should be more than one of just about any item in there and people are going to start undercutting each other's prices to get THEIRS sold. Not to mention if the gold farming bots figure out how to use it, they'll undercut everyone and prices will fall even more since they don't care how much they get from an item as long as its them who sells it.

But the huge increase in the amount of sales will greatly compensate that.

You no longer sell 2 things and cast the rest to the merchant. You cast to the merchant the real junk and put to sale anything over 500g.